Worming is the bane of my existence

[reyven]

*Sighs* I thought I had a handle on how I would be worming Misty, but now my BO is saying some things and I'm so confused

I had told him I bought some paste wormers and asked if he would administer them for me when I left during the month I put on the box. He says he never uses paste wormers and said he wouldn't use it on Misty because he thinks that is what caused her weight issues  He stated the wormer stays in the stomach and can cause all sorts of issues like ulcers and kills the natural bacteria the horses need to use when breaking down food. He went further to say that Misty probably has Ulcers and that is why it's so hard to keep weight on her  I've never seen any signs of ulcers in her and she rarely has any health issues besides being a hard keeper (honestly, I think a lot of her weight issues were from her teeth not being done in so long and them being so bad off)

He stated he uses a cattle wormer that goes on the back and soaks into the skin. Some kind of ivermectin liquid stuff (sorry don't remember the name) that he uses only once a year. He did warn that it can burn the skin though.

He also said there are different kinds of natural horse wormers that are out there that he would use over paste wormers. I'm trying to do some research, but never knowing anything different besides paste wormers, I have no clue if anything else really works!

So now I am thoroughly confused on what is best for my horse!! 

[high ho silver]

hmmm I don't know... I use paste wormers and have not had a problem plus that is what the vet told me to use so I don't think they could be really awful or surely the vet would not say to use them? I always give probiotic when I do worm (which I know some people think does nothing but I believe it helps). If you think she has ulcers then I would ask the vet what the signs would be....I have to give ulcer guard to my sick horse while he is having bute and its really expensive like $35 per tube so personally I would not go getting any special stuff unless the vet thinks you should.....

[Freedancinfilly]

are your BO's horses alive and well? that answers your question I would say if hes gonna care for her then let him do it his way especially if hes not charging you extra, if hes charging you then he should do it your way.

[Bootsandsaddle]

I would say it's a combo of her age and teeth, sometimes horses just get to be harder keepers when they get older. Has he got her on senior? I can't remember if I asked. I've always used paste and just alternated between the different kinds. She doesn't seem like she has an ulcer to me, but may want to talk to vet and see what he/she thinks about the wormer issue. If need be, it would only take an extra 2 mins for me to do it while I'm out, if your hubby can leave them in the locker or something   I'd be a little cautious using a cattle wormer that can burn....also only once a year?? that doesn't sound right. I really don't know though, have never heard of it. definitely at least call and ask the vet what they think, even if you don't have them out.

[swan480]

are your BO's horses alive and well? that answers your question I would say if hes gonna care for her then let him do it his way especially if hes not charging you extra, if hes charging you then he should do it your way.

Whoa, no way.  By that logic my in-laws, who only do their horses' feet a couple times a year (at best) and NEVER have the vet out, are superstar owners.  Just because a horse is alive doesn't mean its owner is doing everything right.

Plus, the thing is, Misty is YOUR horse and YOU dictate the terms of her care.  If your vet wants her on paste wormers, that's what you ought to be doing.  Your BO shouldn't be changing the terms this late in the game.  It's not right.

I agree with you and Boots -- her teeth were probably the problem.  (Did you just recently have them floated?)  I also agree with Boots about staying away from a cattle wormer that can burn.

You need to draw the line right away and make sure your BO knows that she is still YOUR horse, even if he is helping you out while you are gone.  If he can't handle that, move her.  I also hope you have the agreement in writing...  Just in case.

[2manyhorses]

  Wow, just wow.

  First off how would your BO go about figuring out the proper dosage?  Why would you put something so caustic on the skin to cause burns and pain?  (Horse hide is much thinner and sensitive than cattle).  There are no such "horse" products out there probably because they don't work in the same manner they do with cattle.  Cattle injectable ivermectin was a failure when it came out in Horse form due to severe reactions.  If there was don't you think it would be common practice in large ranch operations, BLM?  Deworming only once a year makes no managment sence as larvae mature between 3-5 months depending upon the type.  Ivermec Pour On is what you're talking about.

  Get Boots to do it, get your farrier to do it or last best option is to go with the Safegaurd granules (not the daily stuff) that your husband can pour over some feed.   

[Freedancinfilly]

I said "well" I did not just say alive, I said alive and WELL, meaning they are not burned, suffering, starving, maimed, sore, lame, abused. There are some things my BO does that I don't agree with but she has been in the horse business a lot longer then I have and her horses are alive and THRIVING. so I don't let it bother me, obviously its not hurting anything. If hes hurting the horses, or they are getting sick from it then I would says its a bad idea.

[reyven]

Thanks guys!
Yes his horses are alive and well...but I still don't know how that cattle wormer is affecting them at all...you know?
I think I will just stick with what I know and use the paste wormer. I know it works and I've never seen her lose weight after getting it or anything. The vets I've talked to have all mentioned rotating wormers so I don't think they would have as much of a negative effect as he is saying. Besides, they are designed for horses, unlike the cattle wormer which is designed for cattle.
Just to ensure I am not over worming her, I will get a fecal done once I am on my R&R for two weeks

Yes she is on a Senior Feed. I don't remember which one though, I can easily check the feed room when I get the chance to go back out
Her teeth were floated once last spring and again this past fall. They were so bad the vet couldn't get them all even the first time without possibly causing issues, that's how bad they were

[swan480]

I said "well" I did not just say alive, I said alive and WELL, meaning they are not burned, suffering, starving, maimed, sore, lame, abused. There are some things my BO does that I don't agree with but she has been in the horse business a lot longer then I have and her horses are alive and THRIVING. so I don't let it bother me, obviously its not hurting anything. If hes hurting the horses, or they are getting sick from it then I would says its a bad idea.

Well, he did say it could burn the horses' skin, so I'm assuming he's encountered that before.  Usually I would agree with you about alive and well (<-- got the well part this time   ), but not with something like this.  His horses could tap dance for all I care, and I would still not be putting anything on my horse that is 1) made for cattle and 2) could cause owies. 

[Freedancinfilly]

good call, I think we all agree that using things intended for cattle on horses is a bad idea.

[RynlarTack]

I've done ONLY paste wormers with any of the horses at Linda's I've helped worm.
If you vet suggests it go with that. They should know whats best for your horse, not a BO.
As most people are saying Misty is YOUR horse.
In office management at school any pet is your legal property. All of us hate thinking them as property but you have full legal rights to tell him you want paste wormer.
If he thinks different he should have specified that in the boarding contract.

I think switching wormers might be good, incase the body/worms not saying she would have them can build a resistance to them. As well as probably different effects on the body

Again just check with your vet they should know best, especially if its the vet you have had for awhile and knows Misty then trust his suggestion.

[oceanofhorses]

I would get a second opinion from a vet you trust--cattle wormer is typically meant to use on cattle, not horses, although some types of cattle wormer can be used on horses as well. Anyhow, I'd at least check with the manufacturer to see if it's safe for horses; you never know.

I found a couple of natural horse wormers you might want to look into:

http://www.ublcorp.com/dewormer.html
http://www.earthsongranch.com/Equine-Herbal-Wormer-3p1.htm

Also, I've heard that garlic might be a possible solution for worms...but I haven't tried it on my horses yet. However, you might want to read this article on the benefits and dangers of supplementing your horse's diet with garlic : http://www.equi-therapy.net/equi-therapy/herbal/garlic-horses.shtml.

[2manyhorses]

  Right there the compendium it says for Ivermec "due to potential adverse reaction, it is not recommended for use on species other than cattle".  Ivermectin itself is effective in both cattle and horses but the carrier/delivery method is what makes it "horse" or "cattle".  Cattle tubes of Safegaurd is identical to Panacur.  If you Power Pak, it's 20% cheaper to use the large cattle tubes.   

  Back to Misty, deworming can upset the flora in the intestinal tract so it's not a bad idea to add a probiotic the day after.

[reyven]

Maybe when I'm home to check on her I will try switching to a 'natural' wormer; that way fecals can be done in a timely manner to make sure it's getting all the worms. As it stands now though, the paste I think will work best. I already know it works for her and there has been a lot of research on it

2manyhorses- yeah I was thinking about that, but I think it would be too much hassle to ask him to add more stuff to her feed ^^;

[mfassel]

Just to ensure I am not over worming her, I will get a fecal done once I am on my R&R for two weeks

You'll get a more acurate fecal egg count if you wait 8-16 weeks after the last deworming. The exact timing depends upon the specific dewormer's Egg Reappearance Period plus 4 weeks.

Regarding over-worming, for a single dose of dewormer, it's always better in the long run to give a too much rather than too little.

I encourage everyone to talk with their vets about this topic, esp. if you don't like putting chemicals in your horse. Current thought is to treat the horses that need it (high risk high shedders, the minority) with a targeted deworming plan, and those that don't need it (low risk low shedders, the majority) start to reduce the use of dewormers.